Curse

Phoenix Ex · Aug 19, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

If they don't want grawl farming, change it so that EoE kill = no item.
If they don't want easy urgoz kill, change urgoz to a different creature.
If they don't want AB abuse, make it so that EoE can't take effect when the timer is there.
If they don't want same team griefing, make it so that sac death don't count to EoE.

For the love of god, stop doing bandaid fix that screws up skills for perfectly legit usage.

WasAGuest · Aug 19, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

If they don't want grawl farming, change it so that EoE kill = no item.
If they don't want easy urgoz kill, change urgoz to a different creature.
If they don't want AB abuse, make it so that EoE can't take effect when the timer is there.
If they don't want same team griefing, make it so that sac death don't count to EoE.

For the love of god, stop doing bandaid fix that screws up skills for perfectly legit usage.

But that would require some thought and effort... so instead we have now a broken skill.

I'm also enjoying reading all the PvE is easy comments. It's easy because the AI can't be upped as players have nothing but broken skills to use against them.
Skills are balanced for same level (20) players that can kite and run around playing tag. The AI is higher level, can hit for 400 damage and is set for a "challenge" by throwing numbers against the players. Unbalanced.
I think it's time we start "balancing" skills for battle against mobs instead of other players, that way, next time I cast a zero damage AoE the enemy mobs have enough smarts to see it isn't hurting them and wont run like a baby.

If it's true that Anet listens to both side without bias, let's see it. Stop breaking skills in PvE and start making the game better with improved AI, better skills and better usage.

Xenrath · Aug 19, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I assure you, this decision was not based on PvP or PvM alone, but rather, both played a significant roll in the change. I can also say, from personal experience and observation, we listen to both sides of the spectrum without bias.

I'd like to see all these viewpoints from the PvE (PvM) side, because I don't remember actually seeing anyone complaining about EoE before in PvE. There have been PvP complaints sure, understandably so, but I've not seen these mysterious PvE complaint threads... someone got some links to those threads?

AmberDawn · Aug 19, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I think anet needs to look at some other classes and their skills.
Despite anets claim PvP didn't determine the nerf on EoE I'm sorry to say to me its apparent it did.
Have we seen Ritualist spirits attack range nerfed yet? No. They have greater range than a longbow....this is the weapon that should have the longest attack range of any attack...therefore making rangers needed.
Have you seen 55 monks nerfed?
Do warriors get fatigue? How long can you realistically swing a 3-9 lb. sword in combat? Not long.
Even a rangers only attack speed increased skills are on an attribute that they really can't afford to put points in to be able to do moderate damage.
Yes theres other classes and skills that need to be nerfed. EoE is over a year old and has been nerfed before...yet now theres another problem with it? Well it's mostly useless now..hey anet...why don't you just delete rangers alltogether because it seems apparent no one at anet plays one to begin with and somehow maybe one (by an act of god) might actucally manage to kill one of your characters.

Ulivious The Reaper · Aug 19, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

I'd like to see all these viewpoints from the PvE (PvM) side, because I don't remember actually seeing anyone complaining about EoE before in PvE. There have been PvP complaints sure, understandably so, but I've not seen these mysterious PvE complaint threads... someone got some links to those threads?

i bet someone, some where was complaining about how easy urgoz was with EoE and made a post as to how they can "fix" it... but still we can just adept right? just like the warrior "fix" and the absorption "fix" oh well gg anet, making a situationally almost useless skill into now somthing obsolete, just like half the ranger skills out there

Tortoise · Aug 19, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Seriously, some of these comments make me sad. We have an Anet Dev in this very topic repeating the same message for three times yet people still go out of the way to insult the other side: EoE was nerfed due to a number of reasons, not just AB griefing, not just edgebombing in halls, not just Urgoz farming...

Now, let's get to business:

1. Stop equalizing Aspenwood with pvp. Up until today it was a PvE zone only accessable with PvE characters and it only had PvE rewards. Though you are fighting humans you can make a strong case it isn't PvP in the common sense off the word. Heck, It seems as though most pvp-ers don't consider it to be a form of pvp. (if you don't take me word for it then head over to Guild-hall.net).
In any case: equilizing Aspenwood with pvp isn't as easy as most seem to think.

2. There wasn't a single PvP-er whining about EoE. Afaik, all the whining was related to Aspenwood griefing. Stating that PvP-ers rather whine then think about countering a skill is not only demeaning, generalizing and down right insulting, it is also completely false.

3. The only problem EoE caused in PvP was in HoH itself and even there noone really cared that much. I have never seen a single topic whining about this particular thing.

Most PvP-ers will thank you though for the great advice about killing the spirit, shutting down the ranger or retreating outside of the range. None of us have ever thought about something as obvious as that.
Still, since most of you here are obviously smarter then all the PvPers then please explain us how you will kill an EoE that is cast as far away from the actual battle as possible (whilst still being in range off the fight), that is guarded by traps while your team is busy either tanking two teams or interrupting enemy ghostlies and shutting down enemy interrupters in the 3 second time frame you have in between the Edge being put up and the bomb hitting.

The problem is not it's use in most combats. That is why there was NO whining about it. The problem was it's use in HoH in which you were simply unable to properly defend yourself against it. Still, there was NO whining about this imbalance...

3. The problems in PvE with EoE were abundant. It makes Vizunah square a joke, it makes farming a joke, it allows you to kill off Urgoz without even hitting him. What do you mean imbalanced?

Off course there was no whining from the PvE side... Heck, if there was a skill that would instantly kill all monsters in the area quite a lot of PvE-ers wouldn't be complaining either. Does that mean it's balanced? No, sorry, it doesnt...

The thing is that in PvE imbalances are generally seen as 'cool' and 'handy' even when they destroy the strategic depth PvE has to offer and completely distort the way this game was designed to be played. The old AoE's were overpowered... The old EoE was overpowered. There is no denying that.

4. If you think EoE is useless in PvE perhaps you should start thinking outside of the box instead of complaining about PvP-ers refusing to think. EoE still has a great synergy with AoE spells. It won't kill everything in radar range but it can easily enhance your DPS quite a bit. Just because it cannot kill stuff that's three aggro circles away from you doesn't make it crap...

5. As a summary: EoE was nerfed due to a number of reasons:
- Abuse in aspenwood
- Imbalance in PvE farming situations
- Minor annoyance in Tombs

Why didn't they adress each issue separetly?
- Using EoE in Aspenwood is valid tactic, even you want to take out NPCs. Changing the NPC race would eliminate this tactic, effectively making EoE completely useless. Now EoE can work exactly as it is intended: to create more pressure without eliminating a perfectly valid use. Instead of a one-skill-win it is now evolved into a intriguing tactic.
- Changing the HP-req is a perfect nerf to make EoE still trigger on groups you're trying to kill whilst leaving groups you aren't fighting unaffected
- Similarly: there is a new way to counter edge-bombs that allow you a defense in the one situation where you had non.

I give this change a big thumps up.

Phoenix Ex · Aug 19, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

People seems to forget that EoE also affect your own team and your own minions, and that it takes Beastmastery, and that spirits are easy to kill (and cannot be healed by monk spells!).

For PvP pressuring, people could kill the spirit before you even get stuff to below 90%.

For PvE, to get mobs to below 90%, you need to cluster them together and use AoE, what's the point of EoE then, the AoE can take care of them already!

People always think nerf = more tacticful....ok work all these skills into your team build: rust, ignorance, unyielding aura, skull crack, hundred blade...etc. Then you can be really tacticful, or do you think these skill are useless and shouldn't be used seriously? Now look at EoE...

Skyy High · Aug 19, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Holy crap people, what did this change? Completely undamaged players can no longer get bombed to death. It kills
- EoE farming
- Edge bomb in HA
- griefing in AB

That's it! It's still entirely possible to set off a chain reaction in halls, especially if you're running IWAY. No healer will heal someone from 90% hp to 100%, as that's incredibly energy inefficient. If someone gets hit by just a few attacks, they're within range of the bomb. I don't know about you guys, but I never stay at 100% hp for long in HA. Running into random traps, getting hit by AoE effects that were meant for someone else, the occasional wanding...damage that's not intended to kill, but it's always there, and now that collateral damage serves a purpose.

Honestly, if you think this is such a big frickin nerf, you either are a EoE farmer, someone who enjoyed edge bombing the Kurzicks in Ft. Aspenwood, someone who fame farms with EoE bomb, or a griefer. Very simple. No one else should be affected by this.

Phoenix Ex · Aug 19, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Like i said...do people really want to put point into beastmastery and go through all that fuss for....50 dmg...

Tortoise · Aug 19, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

There is more to beastmastery then EoE. And really, it is hardly 50 damage... If you're using it when there are two guys around, yeah then. But that is hardly making effective use of the skill.

Phoenix Ex · Aug 19, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

The problem is if you take pet, you are already strapped on skill bar slot to fit in EoE, so either you do a half effective pet build, or you do something like cookie cutter thumper, or iway >.< and I thought people encourage variety in builds..

hated · Aug 19, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Wow do you guys really believe Anet does anything other then to boost sales? Yes that's what businesses are supposed to be into, but not a at the cost of the customers.

Basically the feeling I get more and more often is that all that anet cares about is the green stuff. After all, do you really think that anet would have changed this skill if there hadn't been a pvp weekend for FA and JQ?

You can say no but you and I both know that it's true. If it had been for HA or what not it would been "band-aid" addressed long ago, but now a nerf to EoE just happens to occur the night before the pvp event? Lol they aren't even trying to hide their greed anymore.

As for all you pver's out there, I hope you like getting to shaft a lot cause Anet really doesn't care about you. I mean, I can't really remember the last time I saw a fix to the game in the pve aspect. Tell me if you do, because all the "balancing" seems to be focused so that FOTM builds have to change with each new release.

Kinda sad isn't it?

Curse You · Aug 19, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

I was fighting in Fort Aspenwood today with my Pet build. I have 14 Beast Mastery on the build and I make sure to bring EoE, even now.

The reason is, when you're trying to kill off the Kuzick NPCs, they will usually have less than 90% health, because you're attacking them. As well, most enemies will end up with less than 90% health, while I keep my health at practially 100%. So I can stand there demolishing Kurzicks, while not taking any damage myself.

This sounds more like a buff to me.

tomcruisejr · Aug 19, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortoise

...please explain us how you will kill an EoE that is cast as far away from the actual battle as possible (whilst still being in range off the fight), that is guarded by traps while your team is busy either tanking two teams or interrupting enemy ghostlies and shutting down enemy interrupters in the 3 second time frame you have in between the Edge being put up and the bomb hitting....

Nuke it, DOT it.

lol.

seriously, this was/is why EoE bombs happen.

peace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I was fighting in Fort Aspenwood today with my Pet build. I have 14 Beast Mastery on the build and I make sure to bring EoE, even now.

The reason is, when you're trying to kill off the Kuzick NPCs, they will usually have less than 90% health, because you're attacking them. As well, most enemies will end up with less than 90% health, while I keep my health at practially 100%. So I can stand there demolishing Kurzicks, while not taking any damage myself.

This sounds more like a buff to me.

Luxon siege turtles are overpowered.

twicky_kid · Aug 19, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfect

Why dont you read my post properly, I said Hall of Heroes, not any other map that leads to it or PvE. I am aware of how easy an edge bomb team is on any map and how to identify them and stop them. Im talking about holding Halls and even though you are holding out well the Iway team drops an EoE and simply kills everyone on the map, the map is so small you cant run away.

I also saw Iway use EoE today in halls, the edge bomb went off and killed about 17 ppl but 1 team quickly ressed and captured the altar, this fix to EoE is a godsend and Anet did nt even nerf it beyond usage.

Perhaps try holding halls or reading posts thoroughly.

This is the funniest post I've read in a long time. I got to rank 3 in 2 DAYS. We held HA for 6 hours straight for both days. I was so bored out of my mind I've never gone back but on rare instances.

Edge bomb was never a problem. In many cases it killed itself and could never make to the last map unless a skip let alone hold it.

I did read your post and responded acordingly. You might want to try to read mine and stop dying vs edge.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Like i said...do people really want to put point into beastmastery and go through all that fuss for....50 dmg...

The point of having a high BM raiting is so that Tigers Fury can be at 10 seconds for constant use. EoE is just a bonus to having all the BM points.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Luxon siege turtles are overpowered.

Nerf them! Or just change up their stats slightly and make them basically useless. That's the anerf way.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by faralen

Right above in red letters...

Alright, since everything revolves around Grawl farming (or every change purposely affects Grawl farming) in a negative way, explain this one to me: "Fixed a bug in the appearance of the intoxication effect."

What are you talking about...

The EoE nerf wasn't the only thing in the update, but it's what we're talking about. Were you high or something?

Curse You · Aug 19, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Luxon siege turtles are overpowered.

They are overpowered how? You can interupt their attack, demolish them with degen, and of course use Protective Spirit to counter their damage.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

They are overpowered how? You can interupt their attack, demolish them with degen, and of course use Protective Spirit to counter their damage.

There were many different ways to counter EoE, yet that got the nerf bat.

Don't see why there should be a difference here.